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Category talk:First Name Disambiguation
I'm going to have to swallow this one in two bites. It's after 11 and I've got to upload 100+ photos, too, before bed. So I'll pick up with the K's tomorrow. Also, I eventually figured out that the reason I can't get these names out of the main Disambiguation category is that the Disambig template automatically categorizes them. I'm afraid I don't know template code well enough to fix that, and I didn't want to remove the templates altogether, because they're useful. (Also, the double-catting has cut down a bit on the time I would need to navigate back to the Disambiguation category page for the next article after each edit.) Turtle Fan (talk) 04:11, December 29, 2014 (UTC) :I can edit the template to remove the automatic categorization. Let me know when you are ready. 05:14, December 29, 2014 (UTC) ::I'd intended to finish it today, but didn't get around to it. Hopefully I will tomorrow. After I'm done I'll let you know; keeping the code in place as it is did turn out to be rather useful for the first half, so thanks for holding off till I finish the second. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:32, December 30, 2014 (UTC) I'm done moving all the names, though I noticed that quite a few of the non-name disambiguation pages don't have the category typed in, they just rely on the automatic categorization. Before you edit the template, let me go through and correct that; it will be much, much harder to track them all down if the template is edited first. Turtle Fan (talk) 18:14, December 30, 2014 (UTC) :Yeah, my fault. When I was going through, I removed the cat whenever I edited thinking the template was enough. ML4E (talk) 18:16, December 30, 2014 (UTC) ::At the time that was a wise decision. You didn't know we'd need to remove the automatic cats. Turtle Fan (talk) 18:19, December 30, 2014 (UTC) ::We never did finish undoing the double-catting. Anyone remember exactly where we left off? Turtle Fan (talk) 21:57, January 24, 2015 (UTC) :::I thought I had finished going through? Oh well, I do another check then report back. ML4E (talk) 18:54, January 25, 2015 (UTC) ::Sorry, I thought it had been done. I'll undo the template edit. Maybe that will help. TR (talk) 16:32, January 25, 2015 (UTC) :::Okay, I did a check through of all the Disambiguations listed and they have either the parent or sub category in them. TR, you may now eliminate the auto-cating function in the template. Some more work probably needs doing but this part is taken care of. ML4E (talk) 20:37, January 25, 2015 (UTC) Purpose of Disambiguation I am becoming frustrated with Johnathan's padding of various disambiguation pages with names that are not remotely similar. The purpose is to assist users in distinguishing similar names. It is not an etymology of names. Recent examples are adding Katyusha to "Kate" since the rocket system name is a Russian diminutive of Katherine, "Zofia" in "Sofia", "Hieronymus" in "Jerome", "Evan", "Sean", and "Ivan" in "John" (this is probably why Hans is in a separate list), "Jürgen" and "Jerzy" in "George". Certainly, I am guilty of the same with "Colin" in "Nicholas" but I think this needs a pause and rethink. Using the separate list for Hans, I propose we separate out some of these into their own list. If there is not enough examples to create such a list then they should be dropped. I believe this fixation on expanding lists also explains Johnathan trying to add groups that have members with names that fit. Unless the individual is named, no one is going to confuse "The Beatles" for "John", "Paul" or George" so there is no purpose in adding the Beatles to any of those disambiguations. ML4E (talk) 19:19, October 18, 2015 (UTC) :I agree. When I first started including name definitions, etc., in the disambigs, it was because I noticed that disambiguation pages were counted as articles by the wiki, so I figured we might give those "articles" a little substance. But much of what Jonathan has done seems like compulsive listing, frankly, with the heavy focus on etymology rendering the lists virtually impossible to navigate. :HT is an author in the English language writing primarily for English speakers. Using ML4E'S example "Colin" and "Nicholas" may have the same historical starting point, but with time, they have become "separate" names in the English language. Most English speakers looking for a "Colin" are not going to say "What was the last name of that one guy Colin in that one book in Worldwar? I know, I'll go to 'Nicholas' and find him." (The non-English speakers coming here are even less likely to think that way.) :So yeah, let's review. We may even decide, for example, that the Josés should be their own page separate from the Josephs, etc. TR (talk) 20:16, October 18, 2015 (UTC) Marked for deletion The pages I have marked are unnecessary. There aren't multiple characters known only by that name. For example, Aaron (The More it Changes) is the only character with one name on that page; everyone else is known by two names. Therefore, we don't need to trap together all the Aarons for the hell of it, and we certainly don't need Irving Sheldon Aaronson. Pages that aren't marked I don't see any reason to delete. Where there is something worth salvaging, I described it on the talk page. TR (talk) 04:56, February 8, 2019 (UTC) :There seems to be a differing opinion between TR and Turtle Fan on disambiguation pages. I think we need to hash this out first. TR is proposing to minimize the size to whatever is ambiguous and naming the article after it. Turtle Fan, for the most part, agrees but wants to keep the common English full name. See e.g. *Talk: Abraham with two singular "Ibrahims" and one more with a surname. In this case, I think people would look for "Ibrahim" rather than "Abraham". *Talk: Calvin with two singular Cals. *Talk: Hercules (disambiguation) where we have two Heraklonas which leads to TR's conclusion. However, I think Herakleios and Herakleides might also be confusing to non-Classicists (like me). *Talk: Joseph where we have a bunch of single name "Joes" but only one singular "Joseph". I would also add we have two Monarchs with Joseph but they aren't similar in style and two Joseph P. Kennedys (father and son). *Talk: Katherine with five singular "Kates". That, again, seems the way to go. *Talk: Matthew with two singular Matts and one singular Matthew. :Further to my comment at the end of Talk: Francis, some of the Josephs do have similar surnames that might lead to confusion (Josephus Daniels / Darnand, Joseph Haydn / Hooker) ML4E (talk) 19:15, February 9, 2019 (UTC) ::Several issues I have that I'll lay out: ::*Language: I just feel like using the English version is more user-friendly. When HT insists on using foreign names (in Hellenic Traders for example) I tend to find myself mentally swapping them out for the more familiar version anyway. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:27, February 10, 2019 (UTC) ::*Diminutives: Joe and Joseph, to use one example, are really interchangeable. I've never met a Joe who wasn't named Joseph and didn't go by Joseph when the situation called for it. And since art imitates life, fictional characters are likely to do the same. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:27, February 10, 2019 (UTC) ::*Family Names: I've read so many HT stories, with so many characters, over so many years, that I'm unlikely to have total recall for all of them. I might remember that there was a character named John, but not that he was John Smith. If a page for Johns already exists, doesn't that page become more useful if I can look John Smith up there? Turtle Fan (talk) 02:27, February 10, 2019 (UTC)